Baptism / Baptize / Baptizing
The Greek word is βαπτίζω
Pronounced “bap-tid'-zo" -- and means "to dip/sink"
So, those who "sprinkle" [see just below],
is
THAT dipping?
Sinking?
Next, although most say baptism is a COMMANDMENT ...
1) It is not
listed in the 10 (or 11) commandments,
2) The Thief on the cross (Dismas), the jailer/guard at the
cross, The rich,
young ruler, Paul's jailer
[who was going to stab himself], the "woman at
the well" (although "conveniently" near water - ha ha), The prostitute
woman who was going to be stoned to death, and the line-up of those
Jesus healed ..... did not get
baptized.
Does that mean they were not saved?
I believe they
all were saved, since "Jesus" said "believe in your heart and say it
out
loud - and you will be saved". He did not add "and be baptized,
say 3 hail marys, and recite the rosary", or "tun your head to the
left, cough 3 times, and do 11.7 jumping jacks, and sing a high C -
slightly out of tune". Or the The Rich, Young Ruler. Jesus
said "sell everything you have, and give it to the
poor, and follow me."
Have we done THAT? (A: NO!) So WE are NOT saved, correct?
3) Another COMMANDMENT (by the same "command" the above was
given) is to "go unto all the world, and preach the gospel". Have
YOU don't that (A: "No".) So you are not saved. See?
4) A Christian cannot be like the Pharisees. Water baptism in
that day was
for the Prosylte Jew. The pharisees didn't think Jesus was a true jew
BECAUSE HE CAME FROM GALILEE. He got baptized from John the Baptizer
just to prove to the Pharisees that if they had any doubts... He was a
jew. Baptism was for Gentiles... not for Jews.
I believe that baptism is like circumcision
- it's _not_ required, and
if you feel lead ... [ *ouch* !!]
I believe baptism is a public affirmation / sign / display - that you
are dedicating yourself to following God. Enoch followed God
_fervently_ - for 331 years - but there is no record of him (Enoch)
being
baptized. He was one of 3 taken up to heaven - *while alive* - one
other being Yeshua ("Jesus") Himself. Do you *think* he was "inspired"
, or "saved"? (duuuuh!) And even funnier - they kept his book (The book of Enoch)
*out* of the Bible (!!!!)
Yeah, he wrote about a flood, demons, dinosaurs, and more. We can't
have those in the Bible, now, can we??
If becoming born again came about by water baptism, then we would know
from whence the new birth comes, yet John 3:8 instructs that we cannot
tell from whence the new birth comes. Therefore baptismal regeneration
isn't the means of producing the new birth. In regeneration a person is
passive and only God is active. Born from above.
From on-line sites. I have NO IDEA how #1 has to do with baptism.
1) Jesus cites Exodus 3:6
(Gay JV) "Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of
Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his
face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
Original Hebrew:
וַיֹּ֗אמֶר אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק
וֵאלֹהֵ֣י יַעֲקֹ֑ב מֹשֶׁה֙ וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר פָּנָ֔יו יָרֵ֔א מֵהַבִּ֖יט
הָאֱלֹהִֽים׃
It literally means: "to say
God father
God yits-khawk [not
"Isaac"!] God
yah-ah-kobe [not "Jacob"!] moh-SHEH [not
"Moses"! to conceal/hide
face to fear to
look God"
2) 1 Peter 3:21
(KJV) "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a
good conscience toward God) by the resurrection
of Jesus Christ"
Original Greek: ἀντίτυπον βάπτισμα νῦν σῴζει ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου σαρκὸς
ἐπερώτημα θεόν ἀγαθῆς συνειδήσεως δι’ ἀναστάσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
Pronounced "antitupon baptisma nun sōzei
apothesis rupou sarkos [like sarcoidosis]
eperōtēma theon [God] agathēs suneidēseōs
di anastaseōs iēsou ["Yeshua"/"Jesus"] christou"
Literally means: "struck back/counterpart
to sink/to dip
presently to save a putting
away filth/
dirt/impurity body/human
nature/flesh
Inquiry/question/appeal
God good
consciousness through/because of/on account
of a standing up/a raising
up Yeshua the Messiah"
4) 1 Corinthians 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius
εὐχαριστῶ ἐβάπτισα οὐδένα Κρίσπον Γάϊον
Literally means "to be thankful ["God" was added - it
would have been "Theos"] to
dip/sink no one/none
"krispon", a Christian in Corinth "gaion".
If you remove the names, it woud be "to be thankful to dip/sink no one/none"
Contradiction
4) Acts 22:16
Baptism washes our sins away
(KJV) "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away
thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Greek: νῦν τί μέλλεις ἀναστὰς βάπτισαι ἀπόλουσαι ἁμαρτίας
ἐπικαλεσάμενος ὄνομα
Pronounced:
“nun ti melleis anastas baptisai
apolousai amartias epikalesamenos onoma”
Literally means: "the present
who/which to be about to/to intend/to be
destined to raise/to stand
up to dip/sink to wash
off a failure
[sin] to call upon/to invoke/to
appeal to a name/authority”
So, “of the Lord” was added, as well as “tarriest” and “thou”.
This clearly negates “what - can - wash - away - my - sins ….
nothing but the blood of Jesus.” We see that baptism does
it. No need to accept Jesus - just do the ritual of baptism, and
“works" will get you in.
A clear contradiction!
It also negates Ephesians 2:8-9, Ephesians 1:13.
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed
their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Original Greek: παραλαβὼν ὥρᾳ νυκτὸς ἔλουσεν πληγῶν παραχρῆμα ἐβαπτίσθη
Pronounced "paralabōn ōra nuktos elousen
plēgōn parachrēma ebaptisthē"
Literally means "to receive from a time or
period night time to
bathe a blow/wound
instantly to dip/sink"
Translators added "and He", "that very hour", and "he and all the
household" was added.
Also, see Acts 2:38....
Matthew 28:19-20
Greek: πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες ὄνομα πατρὸς
υἱοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος
Literally means: "to go
then/so to be a
disciple
all/every
ethnic to
dip/sink
authority a
father a son - - - -
separate wind/breath"
Verse 20:
διδάσκοντες τηρεῖν πάντα ἐνετειλάμην ἰδοὺ εἰμι πάσας ἕως συντελείας
αἰῶνος
Literally means: "to teach to
guard
all/every to
enjoin look
I exist
all/every
until a joint payment or
action a space of time"
"Sprinkling":
Thee are many who cite the following verse as poof/grounds of spinkling:
Ezekiel 36:25
וְזָרַקְתִּ֧י - does mean “to toss”, but טְהֹורִ֖ים means
“clean/pure”. Tell me any location in the OT - that had “pure”
(distilled 7x) water. Their water was barely drinkable - a peron
had to have "tolerance" for the microbes in it.
Ezekiel 36:25
"Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from
all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you."
Original Hebrew: וְזָרַקְתִּ֧י טְהֹורִ֖ים מַ֥יִם וּטְהַרְתֶּ֑ם
אֲטַהֵ֥ר מִכֹּ֧ל טֻמְאֹותֵיכֶ֛ם וּמִכָּל־ גִּלּ֥וּלֵיכֶ֖ם
It means "to toss or throw/scatter abundantly”
And the Hebrew word מַ֥יִם - pronounced “mah'-yim” - means
“waters/juice/urine/semen”. NOT just “water”.
It continues with: “clean
waters/juice/urine/semen to be
clean/pure to be clean/pure (yes,
AGAIN) the whole/all
uncleanness the
whole/all an idol”
So, these were added: "Then will I”, "upon you”, ", and ye
shall”, “from”, and "will I cleanse you.”
Yeh, we should hang on EVERY WORD. NOT.
Also, this is the Old Covenant - do _you_ still make
sacrifices? Kill animals? - and those animals must be
“without blemish” - which is impossible genetically in this age.
Ezekiel 16:9
וָאֶרְחָצֵ֣ךְ means “to bathe/immerse”. They are either
_conflicting_ (and same Author!), or everyone's “Confirmation bias”
(and eisegesis) is
running away with you - and it’s called “intellectual conceit”.
Later, וָאֶשְׁטֹ֥ף is used - it means “to rinse”. Finally,
they use בַּשָּֽׁמֶן׃ - which means “fat”, not water. Do
you sprinkle fat?
Leviticus 1:5
וְזָרְק֨וּ - means “to scatter abundantly until soaked” - but it
continues with הַדָּ֤ם סָבִ֔יב הַמִּזְבֵּ֙חַ֙
פֶּ֖תַח אֹ֥הֶל מֹועֵֽד׃
This literally means “the blood round about on the
altar by the doorway of the tent at the
appointed time”
So, Br.m - if we (you) are going to get technical, 1) do
you sprinkle *blood* ? 2) you have to do this -
on an alter - in a tent - by a doorway - at the exact
time. Also, 3) it would
be a direct contradiction
to the NT -
which is “to dip/sink”.
Hebrews 9:19–22)
Speaking of New Testament (meaning “New Covenant” - which supersedes
the Old covenant - which you are defending over the NT):
ἐρράντισεν τε βιβλίον αὐτό πάντα λαὸν
Literally meaning “sprinkle both the book
itself and all people”
So, are you saying that we could soak the Bible, and all people
present? And it _commands_ sprinkling
with blood,
water, scarlet, wool, and hyssop
. Now, I have _no idea_ how
one would sprinkle people with wool. The greek word
"hussópos"(translated "hyssop")
refers to a plant used for ritual purification and symbolic
cleansing. I have no idea what it actually is. I would have
to see the genus and species. Usage: In the New Testament,
"hussópos" refers to a plant used for ritual purification and symbolic
cleansing. It is mentioned in contexts related to purification rites
and the crucifixion of
Jesus.
Cultural and Historical Background:
Hyssop is a small bushy plant with aromatic leaves, commonly found in
the Middle East. In ancient Jewish tradition, hyssop was used in
ceremonial cleansing, as prescribed in the Law of Moses. It was
employed in the sprinkling of blood or water for purification purposes,
symbolizing spiritual cleansing and renewal. The plant's use in the
Passover (Exodus 12:22) and purification rituals (Leviticus 14:4-6)
underscores its significance in Jewish religious practices.
Corresponding Hebrew Entry: אֵזוֹב (ezob) - Refers to hyssop in the Old
Testament, used in similar contexts of purification and cleansing.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5301.htm
My point is - that’s what the OT teaches! You know - the
very
testament that you quote from. (In English, of course, not the
original Hebrew.)
NOTE: the Greek word “biblio” - means “a book”. It is where
“Bible” came from. That is why I use “The Canon”, since 68 books
were omitted from The Bible - including one writings by Yeshua Himself,
and others by Mary, Enoch. And don’t forget - the books of James,
Psalms, Job, Proverbs, and Revelation - were originally part of those
“omitted” writings. And see how “dear’ we hold them??
Yes, I believe *all* should have been included - how *dare* they (The
Edict of Thessalonica).
To be FAIR, arguments FOR baptism is REQUIRED for salvation - as
retrieved from argumentative web sites:
Acts 2:38 provides a clear and direct statement on the necessity of
baptism for salvation. When the crowd asked Peter what they must do to
be saved, he replied: "Repent and be
baptized,
every one of you, in the
name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will
receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Acts 2:38 Peter, speaking under
the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, explicitly connects baptism with
the forgiveness of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit—both of which are
essential for salvation. If baptism were merely symbolic, Peter would
not have presented it as an essential response to the gospel. The
Witness of the Early Church Fathers The early church fathers, who
learned directly from the apostles, also affirmed baptism’s essential
role in salvation: Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–110 AD) – A disciple of
the apostle John, he wrote: “Let us be washed in the name of the
Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, that we may obtain eternal life.”
(Letter to the Philippians) Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 AD) – A
second-century apologist wrote: “As many as are persuaded and believe …
are brought by us to where there is water, and they are regenerated in
the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated.” (First
Apology, Chapter 61) Tertullian (c. 155–220 AD) – One of the earliest
Christian theologians said: “Happy is our sacrament of water, in that,
by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and
admitted into eternal life!” (On Baptism, Chapter 1) Conclusion The
biblical evidence in Acts 2:38, along with the consistent teaching of
the earliest Christians, demonstrates that baptism is not merely an
outward symbol but an essential part of salvation. The apostles and
their disciples understood it as the moment where sins are forgiven and
the Holy Spirit is received. To reject the necessity of baptism is to
reject both Scripture and the testimony of those who walked with the
apostles themselves.
My own conclusion:
I'm afraid we don’t know if baptism is REQUIRED! But when Yeshua
("Jesus") *does* talk about entering the kingdom (during the words
recorded during His ministry), he never says anything about
baptism. I think Jesus felt John’s baptism was a fine thing for
people living in this world, but would become irrelevant in the
Kingdom. You can’t baptize every good person in the world, and only the
good will be in the world that is coming–whether they are baptized or
not. The Son of Man will baptize them with fire when he inaugurates the
Kingdom. It will all be done at once, not just one dunking at a time.
Also, those who say "it's a COMMANDMENT!!" - well, so is "Go unto all
the world and peach the Gospel". DO YOU??????
(A: no, you don't.)
Romans 6:3
ἡ ἀγνοεῖτε ὅσοι ἐβαπτίσθημεν Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐβαπτίσθημεν θάνατον
Literally means "or/than to be ignorant/not to
know how much/how many to
dip/sink The Messiah
Yeshua to
dip/sink death"
Romans 6:4
οὖν συνετάφημεν διὰ βαπτίσματος θάνατον οὕτως Χριστὸς ἠγέρθη νεκρῶν διὰ
δοξῆς πατρός καὶ περιπατήσωμεν καινότητι ζωῆς
Literally means "then/and/so to bury
with through/because of
a dipping or sinking
death in this way/thus
The Messiah to waken/to raise
up dead through/because
of opinion a
father and/also to
walk renewal/newness
life"
Romans 6:5
εἰ γεγόναμεν σύμφυτοι ὁμοιώματι θανάτου ἀλλὰ καὶ ἀναστάσεως
Literally means "[like “uh” or “so”] to come
into being/to happen grown along
with that which is made
like death
otherwise and/even/also
a standing up/a raising up”
Galatians 3:27:
ὅσοι ἐβαπτίσθητε Χριστὸν ἐνεδύσασθε Χριστὸν
Literally means "how much/how many to
dip/sink The Messiah to
clothe or be clothed The Messiah"
e-mail me with questions or comments: sssshh@hushmail.com
The Echuarist and baptism
The Eucharist (from Koinē Greek: εὐχαριστία, romanized: evcharistía, lit. 'thanksgiving'), also called "Holy Communion".
The Bible doesn't even mention bathing or defecating/urinating, so one
_could_ interpret that as "we aren't supposed to ever bathe, or have
excrement". We can take these things to extremes.
The Eucharist is Catholic, so I would suggest going to Catholic sites
for moe on that. I and this site are Protestant (the ones who
protested against Catholism). But, read about the Catholic Crusades, if you will.